Making Tech More
Inclusive: An interview
with Ashe Dryden
Exposing the driving causes behind the lack of diversity in our communities,
and how to use your privilege for good.

By Erin Carson

DOI: 10.1145/2604997

Ashe Dryden is a programmer turned expert in diversity and inclusion practices. She’s a prolific writer, speaker, and educator who consults regularly with businesses and conferences. In this interview, Ashe shares her opinions on what can be done to increase diversity at all levels of the tech industry.

ERIN CARSON: You recently argued that requiring open source software (OSS) contributions is a bad thing for hiring practices. Why do you believe this? What are better metrics for evaluating potential employees?

ASHE DRYDEN: Requiring open source contributions will privilege a demographic of people who statistically have more access to free time, higher salaries, and jobs that allow them to contribute during work hours. This group is largely comprised of young (18-35), white, straight, able-bodied men. As we’re attempting to hire people for their programming competency and the ability to work well with our existing teams, we should optimize for those things in screening candidates. Asking for code samples serves just as well as evaluating their open-source work. I personally prefer to either pay candidates for a short-term contract or to pay them to work with our team for a

few days on actual bugs in our system. That gives you a better idea of their capabilities and how they communicate with others.

EC: You’ve quoted that women make up only 1.5 percent of OSS contributors. Why aren’t more women contributing to OSS?

AD: That’s a complex issue. With women software engineers and programmers comprising approximately 24 percent of the industry, we would expect the number of women contributing to OSS to be much higher, closer to the ratio they make up in the industry. Currently there are more women in proprietary software, which accounts for a sizable portion of this difference. This is due to a few things: Proprietary software allows for a more traditional career path from college and doesn’t come with the expectation that one will be working outside of work without being compensated. Because

much proprietary software development is embedded in enterprise environments, there tends to be a better atmosphere for professionalism—workplaces have HR departments and often take reports of harassment and inappropriate behavior more seriously.

EC: What do you think are the driving causes behind the lack of diversity in our communities, events, and workplaces?

AD: The biggest three are harassment, discrimination, and bias. They’re much larger problems than the pipeline issue, which so many people point to. ( The pipeline issue refers to the gradual attrition of women from STEM fields at all stages of career progression.) The attrition rates we see in the tech industry are astounding: 56 percent of women leave tech within 10 years, which is twice the rate of men. Unfortunately we don’t have any formal studies on groups other than women.